This post is extending on some thoughts offered in a previous post sparked by the question, “Is there something like the equivalent of an Indie Music label for publishing?”
I’ve gone over how I think it’s harder for emerging writers to emerge, compared to emerging bands and musicians.
But to answer the original question, technically there is an Indie Publishing equivalent. Indie Publishing, self-publishing, vanity publishing or POD printing is all available. But as the unkind term ‘vanity publishing’ might suggest, it’s not seen in the same light in the world of writers.
Independently publishing a book and not going through a big publisher or at least small press is seen as impatient or simply non-viable, which may indeed be true in a lot of cases. Constantly writers tell those wanting to go it alone that the self-published market is full of crap books, and the only reason they’re going alone is because publishers won’t take them.
So it’s probably true that a lot of self-published stuff is unedited, pure crap that can’t compete with the stuff HarperCollins publishes. But it’s also a generalisation to say that this is the only reason to self-publish.
It also begs to question, how can bands get away with it? Surely the same rule applies. Plenty of Indie Music is probably shit, but that’s hardly emphasised to the up and coming band who decides this route. Or is there something I’m missing?
I guess I’m constantly left with more questions than answers in this game hopefully voicing my thoughts here, making the points, finding the contradictions might encourage some of you to offer comments and ask questions of your own.
writing, books, publishing, Indie Publishing, Indie Music, POD
As you know, I’m an indie author and indie publisher. I got an agent for my first book (a good one too) and it nearly got published traditionally, but fell over at the eleventh hour. I subsequently discovered the wonders of POD and everything associated and have been a very satisfied indie author ever since. I’ve got two novels out, both of which are doing quite well and neither of which has had a bad review yet.
But I try to make my books as good or better than trad published stuff, which is a LOT of work. I get very frustrated with the unedited, poorly produced crap that accounts for a lot of self-publishing, but I like to think that people like myself are slowly changing the paradigm.
Indie authorship is not for everyone and it’s an awful lot of hard work, but I do honestly believe that it has its place in the future. I like to think that I’m part of that vanguard movement and I’m certainly not alone.
.-= Alan´s last blog ..A ‘Verse Full Of Scum now a free ebook at Smashwords =-.
Thanks for your thoughts Alan. I know you’re an Indie author so really appreciate your input.
Your novels seem to be getting the same attention for online Aussie horror haunts as other horror novels, so they don’t seem ‘less.’
What I wanted to know is how do you make sure your novels are better than traditional publishing. Is this your own judgement? Or does someone judge this for you?
Well, partly by own judgement and partly by feedback. If my books are on a bookshelf of trad published titles they shoudl fit right in, or stand out because they catch your eye in a good way. I work hard and get a lot of feedback from people to try to achieve that.
Thanks Alan. I guess having already gotten an agent and almost been traditionally published would also give you some confidence that you’re at a certain standard to go it alone.
That certainly helped me make the decision.
Of course, vanity publishing and true self-publishing are two different things. Vanity publishing is when you pay someone to publish your work. True self-publishing means you foot all the costs yourself. And while there are some authors who do get their starts via self-publishing, unfortunately, due to the fact that anybody can self-publish, and often those who do hate the idea of someone editing their work (i’m only speaking from personal observation about that last, so don’t have hard data) that means the majority of self-published work falls flat.
Small presses are another story. I know of a few that would probably fall into the ‘indie’ category who bring out some really good stuff. To me, those type of small presses and similar outlets are what are defined ‘indie publishing.’ They have support structures, copy-editing, etc, but one doesn’t necessarily need an agent to sell to them. They remind me of the independent labels that indie music took its name from. I think, in the music industry, there’s the commercially backed boys, then the indie boys, and below that the slush, from which will arise the next commercially backed group or indie group.
Similar deal with writing, i think. The only real difference is that the indie music industry is structured a little differently than the indie publishing industry–and it’s easier for a band to get noticed.
.-= Isaac´s last blog ..Gaining momentum =-.
Having self published an ebook last year – I can agree with Alan that it is a lot of bloody hard work. You are responsible for all the promoting and marketing, you have to work out the style and look of the book etc.
We learnt a lot of “how not tos” with it – which will hopefully feed into a more successful venture with Chinese Whisperings.
I think the big thing with self publishing is being willing to work with someone you trust in the editorial capacity to ensure you’re work is the highest quality possible. While we are all our worst critics in lots of ways – we are also often not far enoughed removed (or have the ability to move far enough away) too look at our work dispassionately.
This was the case of of two ladies I know- again with a non fiction books. Great premise, really important info – but so badly written it was inaccessible for the average person who needed the information.
If you’re going to invest the time, energy and effort into creating the work in the first place – you really need to ensure you tick all the process boxes that traditional publishing houses do – which is why it is such hard work.
Paul and I have just had the luck of getting a published writer to take a look over our final anthology (and hopefully we’ll be able to garner the eye of at least one other person not directly involved in the project) so we can assure ourselves when it hits the POD and download market we are offering a top quality product.
And yes Allan – it is the vanguard movement. And I’m hoping soon, from our Chinese Whisperings project we’ll be able to grow something big and important for self publishing writers.
.-= Jodi Cleghorn´s last blog ..Holiday Redux =-.
Very good comments from both of you. A few points that occurred to me:
With the indie music situation, it’s easy for a band to practice their chops in pub gigs and self produced CDs before really trying to make it big. It’s also easy for people to listen with no investment of time and very little investment of money. So in some ways it’s easier to make a success fo indie music than indie writing.
Which brings me to the second point – You absolutely can NOT self-edit. No one can. Yu have to have multiple proof-readers and ideally some quality editing help. You can often get this from writers’ groups. You don’t have the ability to showcase your work like bands playing a pub gig. The first look at your book is all people have to go on. They need to invest time and money, so your presentation and previews need to be bang on. People can spot poor self-publishing a mile off.
That’s the idea with my indie outfit Blade Red Press. I put out my own books through it first and people should see a quality, well presented book and it won’t even occur to them that it’s self-published. Most readers don’t care how a book gets to them if it’s what they expect a book to be like. And hopefully I can use Blade Red Press to make those opportunities open to more emerging writers.
Woah, thanks guys. This discussion is really clarifying and all of your long in depth comments are just what I was looking for.
So it seems getting your book professionally edited is a key factor in making sure your book is the same quality as traditionally published books.
Alan, I talked about how bands got to show there stuff at gigs in the previous post. Though I’m racking myself to think of how it can be done in the writing world.
Just self-publishing a short story collection now and selling it cheap to friends and family wouldn’t be same, but also it would be impatient as my writing isn’t ready.
I suppose getting published in online markets print magazines and even posting your flash on a blog like I do could be considered in the same vain. Though, it doesn’t feel the same for me.
Friends who are in bands get all of us to come support them. I want that with my writing, but perhaps this desire is misplaced or just impossible.
No, it all counts. I’m “traditionally” published in various print and online media, so it all counts to raise my profile. I have a free novella out there, novels in print and as ebooks that are selling steadily but slowly. It’s a slow burn and you have to work at it. Maybe it’s like playing one really long, slow gig hoping that more and more people come in the longer you play.
Or it’s more like the beginning gigs you play only a few people turn up but as you raise a profile, you play at bigger pubs and more people come searching for you.
It is such a slow game. And I know part of thoughts about self-publishing come out of impatience. The traditional route looks so long and daunting, so unattainable sometimes.
I know trad published authors that work just as hard on their profile and their own marketing as I work on mine. We’ve had interesting conversations about it. Have a look on my blog for the guest post from David B Coe – very enlightening stuff. Obviously they have the publisher behind them and a far bigger opening audience, but the gap is not nearly as big as you might imagine. Trad or indie, the division is becoming more and more blurred.
.-= Alan´s last blog ..Twitter and the back cover blurb =-.
There were a lot of really good points made here.
It doesn’t matter whether you’re putting out your own CD or your own novel, both are easy enough to accomplish with today’s technology, but neither will make you any money unless you’re willing to work hard and distribute a quality product.
I have a friend who self-publishes and she’s very professional about the whole thing. She started it up as a business and treats it that way. We also have a recording studio in our house and I’ve seen numberous garage bands pass through that will never amount to anything else beause they’re unwilling to put the work into it.
I have to say that setting high standards will get you further than anything else.
.-= Carol´s last blog ..Creative Friday =-.
Hey guys, loving the comments here – i thought i’d offer my views as an indie musician…
I think there’s a great deal of similarities in the promotion of music and literature, from an indie perspective. And lets face it, promotion and marketing your work is likely to be the most effective way of reaching a financially viable career.
It’s all about building a fan base.
For us (Midwinter), this involves spreading the word via internet (facebook/myspace), playing shows and maintaining an email list. Getting out there an exhibiting your work at every opportunity. More recently, this has grown into television interviews, community radio appearances and the holy grail in building a fan base… obtaining a support slot with a better known band.
I assume the writer’s equivalent for this would be other print forms previously mentioned – blogging, eBooks, etc – any outlet for getting your words out there and generating some kind of a buzz.
I think Alan hit the nail on the head, when he said that building a fan base is like playing one really slow gig, hoping more people attend over time. This rings true for us indie musos as well – we just need to ensure that after the gig, we’re keeping people informed on upcomging news, gigs, appearances, etc.
Intrestingly enough, i think we would fall into the category ‘vanity artist’ that was mentioned earlier.
After writing and producing our music over a two year period, we took the leap of faith to go an get it recorded in a well-reputed, quality studio – with a well known producer to top it off. Everything was self funded, and the result is that we have a quliaty product that we can market independently.
For independent writers, i guess this translates to: written, proof read 1000 times, edited and published.
I’m afraid i’ll have to revisit this post at a later time – will be back to comment further then…
Carol: So true about those garage bands that never amount to anything.
Thanks for your thoughts Neil. I guess there is a lot of similarities. The difference being that your gaining of support seems a lot more public. Those beginning avenues for writers can be very hidden and no one knows to take you seriously until you’re a bit more noticed.
Certainly that external support by people turning up to those first tiny gigs must provide some sort of motivation.
Look forward to your further comments.
Hey Benjamin,
Great question! There have been several times over the last few years that I’ve lamented the perceived differences in being an indie writer/publisher and an indie music artist. There’s something inherently cool about being an indie musician, about putting yourself out there, putting out a cd, getting discovered and building a career. So why does the inverse seem to be true of self- or indie-publishing? That said, I really think the same trajectory for a writer or publisher is becoming cool – think about the cultural cache of McSweeney’s (even in non-literary circles).
Remember that some indie publishers aren’t striving to be something bigger or greater – there’s not always an idea of growth inherent in its existence. And they can be a great breeding ground for non-mainstream voices – think (in Australia alone) Breakdown Press for political activism, Lifted Brow for publishing difficult forms (such as an epic 80-minute spoken word poem) and aduki independent press for creating a vegan media…. as far as the differences between self-, vanity- and indie-published, I would agree with Isaac above.
If you’re interested in self-publishing a great resource is No Media Kings: http://nomediakings.org/. NMK was offered a contract from a corporate press and decided to go it along; he has had a long career as an indie (self-published) author. There are loads of DIY publishing resources and info on his site.
Thanks for your comment Lisa.
I certainly consider myself in that category of non-mainstream voices so I’ve often wondered whether it’s even worth the effort aiming for a big house to publish my stuff.
And thanks for point me to No Media Kings! It certainly looks interesting.
Pingback: Benjamin Solah, Marxist Horror Writer » Publishing Idea: Support Writers